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Discussion Forum - LDWA ideas forum - FRA v LDWA


Posted: Mon 6th Aug 2007, 19:39
Joined: 1986
Well as the original poster I am glad to see so many replies and over 1500 views. Firstly let me aplogise for the title the word 'versus' was not meant to signify any conflict or indeed competition between groups. There is a lot cross-fertilisation between the groups and I for one enjoy the LDWA events far more than an equivalent very long fell run.

To add even more incestousness (is that a word?) welcome to Maddy who is also a member of the same athletic club as me.
Posted: Mon 6th Aug 2007, 19:39
Joined: 1986
Well as the original poster I am glad to see so many replies and over 1500 views. Firstly let me aplogise for the title the word 'versus' was not meant to signify any conflict or indeed competition between groups. There is a lot cross-fertilisation between the groups and I for one enjoy the LDWA events far more than an equivalent very long fell run.

To add even more incestousness (is that a word?) welcome to Maddy who is also a member of the same athletic club as me.
Author: Madeleine Watson
Posted: Wed 1st Aug 2007, 23:42
Joined: 2002
Local Group: West Yorkshire
Hello folks - my first post on this forum!
My curiousity was raised by the comment in the Strider about the FRA vs this forum, and in particular "Should we encourage them to participate in our events?" I haven't seen too much about that, but my view (as a member of both) is yes!!! There is quite a bit on the FRA forum about LDWA events. I personally love them (well particularly the cups of tea!) but only seem to get to do them in Winter.
Can't get used to seeing Moley called by his real name though!
Author: Anne Wade
Posted: Mon 26th Feb 2007, 20:52
Joined: 1994
Local Group: Heart of England
Most events accommodate runners by having a later start time, which they state in their info. This is great because it means that we don't get to checkpoints too early, the start is less stressful because there are fewer people (no queues for the loo etc) and you get to stay in bed a bit longer! My favourite events are those with staggered start times, so you can choose when to start, according to the checkpoint opening times.
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Mon 26th Feb 2007, 16:04
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
Fell Runners Association.
Just stick FRA up on google if you are interested ! Matt.
Author: Carol Coyne
Posted: Mon 26th Feb 2007, 12:05
Joined: 2004
Local Group: Surrey
Who/what is FRA? Please forgive my ignorance - I'm still new to all this long distance walking lark!
Posted: Sun 25th Feb 2007, 19:42
Joined: 2007
Andrew
It's the Trollers Trot next Saturday - i did it last year with a good turn out of runners. Route is straight forward and long range forcast (dont believe it!) looks ok.
Hope to see you there
chris
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Fri 23rd Feb 2007, 18:06
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
Andrew, I think the majority accept runners and they normaly say if it is "walking only". The only thing is, they are generally NOT races and you have to be prepared to fit in with the organisers and their wishes. Sometimes checkpoints open at a certain time (for various reasons, like a couple may be doing an early checkpoint and then doubling up on a later one). It is very annoying to have a fast runner going through an unmanned checkpoint and nobody knowing about it. This can cause problems.
All I would suggest is a quick phone call or e-mail to the organiser of the event and check first, aslo be prepared to adapt a bit if requested. I've been running them for years without any problems, and great fun they are too. Matt.
Posted: Fri 23rd Feb 2007, 15:05
Joined: 2007
I'm now a member of both the FRA and the LDWA having joined the latter about 10 minutes ago!
I ran the Beacon Bash last weekend and was suitably impressed with the organisation etc and am looking to get involved in more long distance running.
Looking at the list of future events I was surprised at how many events there actually but I'd like to know whether or not they all accept runners.......and if not, how do I find out?
Author: Anne Wade
Posted: Wed 21st Feb 2007, 20:44
Joined: 1994
Local Group: Heart of England
By choosing events carefully and by being prepared to travel, there are events that welcome runners virtually every weekend of the year. I have an added handicap with a dog as well, but my event diary for this year is already full! Welcome to the LDWA, Chris.
Author: Philip Powell
Posted: Tue 20th Feb 2007, 22:40
Joined: 1981
Local Group: Northumbria
Durham Dales Challenge may be found on our website:

www.walknortheast.org.uk

There is a downloadable entry form. Route description will be available shortly but there is one section that has to be checked in the next few days.
Posted: Tue 20th Feb 2007, 20:47
Joined: 2007
Nice one guys - with a bit of provocation, there is live in ldwa land! Can't seem to find the details for the Durham challenge though. Can you help Philip?
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Tue 20th Feb 2007, 18:52
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
And I shall be very upset if you don't put in an appearence at the Rhayader mountain trail, which is also a Montrail event, so runners very much catered for.

This lot should keep Chris busy for a weekend or two! Matt.
Author: Tony Deall
Posted: Mon 19th Feb 2007, 20:05
Joined: 1985
Local Group: Cumbria
You are also welcome on the Three Rings of Shap,Chris. A variety of routes ranging from 18 to 62 miles.
Author: Philip Powell
Posted: Sun 18th Feb 2007, 20:53
Joined: 1981
Local Group: Northumbria
Well, Chris - you'll be more than welcome on the Durham Dales Challenge. Three distances - 16, 28 and 52 miles - and runners accepted on all 3.
Author: John King
Posted: Sun 18th Feb 2007, 18:49
Joined: 2002
Plus runners don`t consume all the food at checkpoints.
Posted: Sun 18th Feb 2007, 18:24
Joined: 2007
I've just jointed the LDWA (this month), mainly to get the list of future events for long distance running. I like the LDWA association events (well the ones i select) and how they are organised (much better than most of the long fell runs (very little help on the way with the 3 Peaks fell run!), however, they do vary from a runners point of view. Some dont encourge runners - late opening check points - Myrtle Meander), very few have of maps - you cant run and read, sometimes meaningless text directions. Seems to me that the LDWA should jump at the chance of combining running (a masive growth area) and walking. Both interests can be catered for without conflict; (runners/walkers off at seperate times, multi-option distances. This is a effective way of organsiing events becuase; bigger total numbers, the events are more likley to go on year after year, Check point visits are space out more (less mad rushes and then no one for hours!), The event makes good money and is predictable from year to year (great for sponsorship!). The best organised events that i have seen (just like i have described) are the Lancashire ones. come on other areas - make them more runner friendly and make every one a winner!
Author: John Williams
Posted: Mon 5th Feb 2007, 12:19
Joined: 1984
Local Group: The Irregulars
Perhaps there should be a league system for walkers and runners i.e.as in football.The quickest are put in the FRA,the not so quick in the LDWA and the slowest in the Ramblers.
Author: Garfield & Helen Southall
Posted: Sun 31st Dec 2006, 21:54
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
I looked at the FRA site just now to see if I had updated my standing order details and realised I couldn't do that with their site.

Looking at other features on their site I couldn't help feeling the LDWA wins in most departments. I can't check their forums, of course (tee hee).

Open v Closed website due for discussion soon - start lobbying!

We might have a new skin soon ! Garfield
Author: Garfield & Helen Southall
Posted: Sun 31st Dec 2006, 21:50
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
Mike, we have a meeting soon to finalise updates. A lot has happened internet-wise, both on and off the pitch, so to speak. Won't be long. Garfield
Author: Mike Buckley
Posted: Sun 24th Dec 2006, 0:14
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Heart of England
Garfield ref your post on 3 Sept, not long left now.
Paul B, you've lost me there Paul.
Author: Paul David Blackburn
Posted: Sat 23rd Dec 2006, 0:45
Joined: 1992
Local Group: The Irregulars
I did not intend to give he impression that I thought any rivalry actual existed. I dont. If I gave that impression its down to unintended interpretation of my inarticulate ramblings. I agree with the opinion of all the repondants.Why do we have an active forum discussion on a state of affairs nobody I know thinks exists.
Author: John King
Posted: Thu 21st Dec 2006, 18:38
Joined: 2002
Spot on Julie
Author: Julie Wyant
Posted: Thu 21st Dec 2006, 13:23
Joined: 2006
Local Group: Heart of England
I suppose the title of this thread (‘versus’) could give the impression that there is some competition between the two associations. Really it would have been better called LDWA ‘and’ FRA. The two are certainly very complimentary, with many people belonging to both, as that love of the outdoors is the great unifier.
Author: John King
Posted: Thu 21st Dec 2006, 11:45
Joined: 2002
Paul i really can`t see where anybody other than yourself has suggested that the LDWA and FRA are in competition of course the two overlap as has already been said we share common interests, and the very nature of what we do means that each to there own is the very essence of long distance often multi-day activites, however you undertake them i.e. run, walk, bike etc.

In my opinion to even think that there is any competition between the LDWA and FRA would not be conducive to the long term harmony that we currently share.

John
Author: Norman C Corrin
Posted: Thu 21st Dec 2006, 9:08
Joined: 1981
Local Group: Beds, Bucks and Northants
Paul, I couldn't have put it better myself. Each to their own. The outdoor activities world has plenty of scope from the hardened LDWA walkers to the more sociable IVV walkers with their badge and certificate schemes to encourage youngsters. Diversity is to be welcomed.
Author: Paul David Blackburn
Posted: Wed 20th Dec 2006, 22:41
Joined: 1992
Local Group: The Irregulars
Just read through all the comments on this subject. bemused! the LDWA & FRA are`nt in competition. Ever heard the saying each to his own ? We overlap.Being involved in the running of 4 events a year I see many apparently excellent runners participating, all of who`m seem to have a good day out. Are we in competition over who gets the most hits on there website ? The LDWA website is relatively new and is constantly improving. Any ideas for innovation wether internal or poached from similar sites
are sureley to the benefit of the association.
Author: John King
Posted: Wed 20th Dec 2006, 13:08
Joined: 2002
Garfield that can only relate to the plateau`s after the climb.

As to alternatives definitions for LDWA i think it would be improper to post them publicly.

John
Author: Julie Wyant
Posted: Wed 20th Dec 2006, 12:39
Joined: 2006
Local Group: Heart of England
I like the 'it's ONLY a 20' :-) You can tell I'm new to this long distance malarky!

Was looking at the weather forecasts earlier actually, and one of them said snow and 0c!! So sounds like we'll need to take plenty of clothes, especially as it'll be much slower than a 'running' race. Might have to ditch the flask though.

Cakes all the way round - sounds like my sort of event :-)

Hope you feel better soon Matt.
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Wed 20th Dec 2006, 9:31
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
Julie, I don't think there is an official kit check on this, but you are expected to carry sensible clothing & safety stuff for the conditions (check forecast) and route. It is only a 20, and not that remote. I would carry the usual: map, compass, whistle, body cover (as FRA events). Never go without hat & gloves, a water bottle, very small first aid (for blisters and painkillers) and whatever else I considered necessary on the day.

Marches always do plenty of grub on their events. I think you can rely on Chris Dawes to lay on a good selection of cakes, and stuff at checkpoints - if you eat your way round you'll probably put on weight rather than loose it!!
I live in hope of whisky or mulled wine at a checkpoint..

Don't forget the present (£1.00 value) for the lucky dip brantub.

I am coughing my lungs up this morning, so not looking great. I'll know in next 48 hours. Matt.
Author: Julie Wyant
Posted: Wed 20th Dec 2006, 8:22
Joined: 2006
Local Group: Heart of England
The FRA forums have been down for ages, almost a week I reckon. Looks like we're all trying to get our 'chat' fix on here :-)

Hope you get better Matt, would have been good to catch up for a natter on Saturday.

Do they have 'kit checks' at LDWA events, or is it up to us to bring what we think is sensible. I see there's food laid on, but they advise us to bring some of our own too - what sort of thing do you get at the checkpoints?

20 miles, oh yikes!!!
Author: Garfield & Helen Southall
Posted: Tue 19th Dec 2006, 23:14
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
The FRA is the Flat Roofing Association. Garfield (bemused)
Author: John King
Posted: Tue 19th Dec 2006, 18:23
Joined: 2002
Yep FRA forum is down hope you get over the lurgy before the weekend Matt.
Right no FRA forums so i guess a run is the answer.
John
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Tue 19th Dec 2006, 17:48
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
The FRA chat forum seems to be 'down' today - I'm having serious withdrawal symptoms !!

Hope to see you at the Tinsel Trail, but just come down with a lurgy today, so final decision on Friday. Matt.
Author: John King
Posted: Tue 19th Dec 2006, 16:54
Joined: 2002
Good to have you on board Julie enjoy the LDWA event this weekend, im of over to the FRA forum now to catch up on the news. :0)
Author: Julie Wyant
Posted: Tue 19th Dec 2006, 10:52
Joined: 2006
Local Group: Heart of England
Well I'm a member of both, NOW. Has to be the said that the FRA forums are doing a great advertising job for the LDWA because that was how I found out about it. In fact I believe Matthew Hand off this very thread was completely instrumental in encouraging me.

I'll be off to do my first LDWA event this weekend, the Marches Tinsel Trail, and am looking forward to having a go.

I agree with comments that this site isn't great - I did hear of the LDWA a while back, came to this site, could find nothing out that I wanted to (e.g. events), and went away. It's only cos of the rave reviews on the FRA that I came back and finally joined.

See some of you on Saturday.
Julie
Author: Garfield & Helen Southall
Posted: Sun 3rd Sep 2006, 16:33
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
Mike - this is now scheduled for the next batch of updates. Sometime between now and Christmas. - Garfield
Author: Garfield & Helen Southall
Posted: Sun 3rd Sep 2006, 16:32
Joined: 1991
Local Group: Merseystride
Hi everyone. I've created a new forum - The Bothy ! There you can drop in and create a thread on any topic you fancy. See you there - Garfield
Author: John King
Posted: Sun 3rd Sep 2006, 10:11
Joined: 2002
Great idea General but relevant chat
Author: Mike Buckley
Posted: Sun 3rd Sep 2006, 0:44
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Heart of England
I've said this before, can't we have the latest post at the top of the list?
Author: Mike Buckley
Posted: Sun 3rd Sep 2006, 0:35
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Heart of England
Last Sunday our group walk led us to meet FRA members head on (literally) as we were ascending Cnicht, Snowdonia. A FRA event was taking place up and down the same path with runners passing in both directions at regular intervals. Some were considerate but many were not and walkers had to get out of the way sharpish or risk being pushed out of the way. Another problem I noticed was the amount of erosion, a topic not covered as yet on the forum, which was far greater from the runners on this popular path. Some were dislodging boulders and turf in an effort to pass others. It seems to me that walkers are far more considerate. FRA 0 LDWA 1
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Sat 2nd Sep 2006, 22:56
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
Oh all right then.
Went fishing this morning and drove through Llandinam about 7.45 ish?
And there was a walker on the 'cross Wales', going well by the looks of him, just wondered who it was, as I kind of recognised his back view and gait.
At the time I was thinking, they are in for a hell of a day, seeing as what the weather forecast was - but it never seriously materialised (the rain, that is).

Await to hear reports of the walk from those on it.

Perhaps we could have a 'general chat' forum for stuff like this? Matt.
Author: John King
Posted: Sat 2nd Sep 2006, 19:11
Joined: 2002
See quiete on here here surely we don`t have to talk to ourselves do we?
Author: John King
Posted: Fri 1st Sep 2006, 13:41
Joined: 2002
I am a member of both and have been for a good few years, but until now have never really tried to define one from the other, however i gave that up pretty quickly and decided i would resort to my old idea that we are all lovers of the wild places and the challenges they present.

Some of us like to cover a lot of ground in the shortest possible time others like to take a little longer, but essentialy we are all the same but take a different approach, as to the differences in forums doe`s it really matter it certainly does`nt to me, as has already been pointed out a forum is only as good as those that post on it, and in view of the fact there appears to be sevaral FRA members posting on here there must be something attracting us over, so who`s going to start the banter?
Author: Ian & Pauline Charters
Posted: Sun 20th Aug 2006, 8:34
Joined: 2000
Local Group: Lakeland
The FRA forum stats, like many stats, can mean whatever you want them to, I am sure. Equally the 80:20 rule applies to participants and, sure, there can be 'too much banter' for some people's liking but it is a vibrant place, populated by enthusiastic runners from 'wanna be's to current internationals.

Novices ask for and get encouragement and advice. Race route details, training, kit and nutrition advice is sought and freely. The camaraderie, commitment and enthusiasm so characteristic of both fell runners and long distance walkers is far more obvious on the FRA site than it is here, regretably.

The model might not work again and no one would deny face to face contact is best for drawing people in but you have to meet them to do it and there is evidence that the FRA forum works.
Posted: Thu 17th Aug 2006, 20:46
Joined: 2006
I've been a member of FRA for about 20 years and an LDWA re-joiner for about 20 days! Broadly speaking FRA caters for people who compete at all levels and LDWA for people who like social walks & challenges?? I want to get more long distance challenges into my calendar and to travel to parts of the country I haven't seen before - it's easy when someone else plots a route for you. The boom (if there is one) seems to be across all outdoor recreational activities and may, in part, be road runners from the 80's boom years getting older and wanting to find something new. I agree the FRA forum is a good read but the figures distort that fact that it's the same old contributors 'talking across the airwaves' (now I'm in for it) but on a positive note it's a good way to ask for and get information from an experience group of like minded people.
Author: Tony Willey
Posted: Tue 15th Aug 2006, 21:20
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Lakeland
The FRA membership sec has confirmed that their recruitment rate is currently much the same as the LDWA at 1000+ per year. Their net membership, taking into account non-renewals, has increased by around 500 in the last year. I believe that at the end of the year the LDWA will also show a net increase in membership.
So far as the website is concerned, I am certain there are improvements that can be made for the benefit of our members. I'm not sure that copying the FRA forum/chatline approach is one of them. Their total of 85000 posts on 3200 threads is an impressive statistic, but who has the time to read them? This boring middle aged fuddy duddy has better things to do. But perhaps you think otherwise...........
Author: Anne Wade
Posted: Mon 14th Aug 2006, 20:59
Joined: 1994
Local Group: Heart of England
There is also the TRA - Trail Runners Association. This is perhaps more appealing to LDWA members and vice versa as the events are longer than most fell races. eg The Ridgeway (all of it!!) over the August Bank holiday weekend. The problem with FRA events is that they are mostly too short to warrant a long drive to take part and, unless you are lucky enough to live where they take place, they are hard to train for. The TRA is still a relatively small association at the moment, but I think it marries up well with the ethos of the LDWA and members of both are compatible. The website is www.tra-uk.org Why not take a look.
Posted: Sun 30th Jul 2006, 21:40
Joined: 1982
I was resting on Calfhow Pike below Clough Head on Friday, when two male runners came up on me, we passed the time of day and they took off down towards Beckthorns, there is a track shown on the map but the pace these lads were going and the closenes of the crags was amazing. Then this morning as I was leaving the top of Blencathera a young slip of a girl came full jogg up from the direction of the Blencathera centre and was not even breathing heavily, a few minutes later she passed me again going even faster

I suppose this is the differnce between the Fell Runners and mortals like myself and may explain why Jos Naylor was able to complete a run of 70 fells on his 70th birthday.
David H
Author: Stephen Potter
Posted: Sun 30th Jul 2006, 16:38
Joined: 2006
Local Group: East Yorkshire
have enjoyed reading the FRA forum myself, but wonder how many who post actually fell run. would be nice to have a similar forum on long dis walking. perhaps the key is to get some threads going on there and plug the ldwa events.
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Thu 27th Jul 2006, 21:56
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
Yes John, correct on the name. I see the FRA forum site had a new record of over 90 people on line one lunchtime this week (this is the forum/chat site). It goes from strength to strength with new posters joining all the time. Somehow it seems to feed off itself and generate more interest, the more people join in. M.
Author: Tony Willey
Posted: Mon 17th Jul 2006, 17:10
Joined: 1989
Local Group: Lakeland
John, those FRA membership numbers look impressive, but is that an increase of 1200 in total membership, or 1200 new members each year, not quite the same thing. The LDWA has recruited around 1000 new members per year in 2004/5/6, approximately double the rate of previous years, no doubt assisted by the development of the website. However, total membership has only shown a small increase as renewal rates appear to have declined. The challenge for both the FRA and LDWA will be to retain these new members. One way of doing this is to develop the website further to provide useful services to members. Priority has been given to resolving issues relating to membership administration, but I am hopeful that the focus can soon be moved to more visible developments. Now, where are all those bright ideas posted on the forum?
Posted: Thu 6th Jul 2006, 15:42
Joined: 1982
Simple way to find out what letters mean. Tap them in to Google and see what comes up but any one who has walked in the Northern Yorkshire Dales or round the Lake District will have seen or heard of the deeds of these fantastic people,known as Fell Runners. Normaly a bunch of them sweep past you are on Latrigg or knackered on one of the Skidaw paths and they are just out for a training run. As for this site, a site is only as good as the people who use it and the Future Events page is very good.
Posted: Thu 6th Jul 2006, 13:26
Joined: 1986
Fell Runners Association - link to their site at http://www.fellrunner.org.uk/forum/
Author: Ian Koszalinski
Posted: Thu 6th Jul 2006, 13:06
Joined: 2004
Local Group: High Peak
FRA? Front runners association ? or get to the checkpoints first and eat all the biscuits association?
what is the FRA?
Posted: Thu 6th Jul 2006, 12:13
Joined: 1986
Are you Moley (?) on there Matthew. The guy with an avatar of him and his bike?

I am johnnybike on there. I agree with your comments
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Wed 5th Jul 2006, 23:09
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
I am also a FRA member first, but also LDWA. To be quite honest the FRA forum is light years ahead of this one. It is an open forum and responds to suggestions from contributors - quickly and positively. It has built up an incredible following in a short time, by being open, tolerant, and lightly moderated. I believe the success has little to do with FITC book and all to do with vision and forward thinking. The humour and chat can be so sharp it cuts, (o.k not all of it, but much) the site simply feeds off itself. Word gets around and more and more people join in, then start to fell run as a sport. I have over 800 posts on that site, and have a great time there, resulting in a 2 day running/cycling event this last weekend through Wales with persons I had never previously met, one of the best weekends of my life - organised through the website. I hate to say it, but this ldwa site is a lost cause as a means of recruitment. It does nothing to promote L.D.Walking to the country, but everything to promote it as a sport for middle aged, boring fuddy-duddies. I hope the site can change as its members deserve better, I have said it before - this site is a wasted opportunity. Matt.
Posted: Wed 5th Jul 2006, 22:44
Joined: 1986
Feet in The Clouds is a fantastic read and certainly has an impact. Growth in off-road running and the fitness boom has a lot to do with it as well. However the LDWA should also be seeing an improvement as well. I am not sure we are though. A friend of mine writes articles for various publications and I keep suggesting he writes about some of the 100 competitors, especially those who are 60+ and finish pretty high up.
Author: Julie Welch
Posted: Wed 5th Jul 2006, 20:25
Joined: 1996
Local Group: London
Might it have something to do with its being made fashionable by the award-winning bestseller Feet In The Clouds, published last year, by an Independent journalist (I think) Richard Askwith?
Perhaps someone could do something similar for the LDWA.
Posted: Wed 5th Jul 2006, 20:21
Joined: 1982
"Feet in the Clouds" maybe or L D W A people that want to go faster and harder and maybe it is a two way trip, how many F R A members have come to us as age and knees tell their story?. Both of us can live side by side and help each other, they get some of our youngsters we get some of their pensioners (sorry vetrans).
Posted: Wed 5th Jul 2006, 16:35
Joined: 1986
I am a member of both, although have recently rejoined the FRA but have been a continuous member of the LDWA for 20 years. Why did I rejoin the FRA? The online forum and the calender of events. Membership numbers for the FRA is similar to the LDWA (7000 ish, I have not got an exact figure to hand for either) but the key point is that the FRA numbers have increased by around 1200 in the last year. Just thought I would generate a discussion as to why

John

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