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Discussion Forum - Events - Camel Teign - 100 Vandalism


Author: Roy Turner
Posted: Sun 28th Apr 2013, 22:14
Joined: 1988
Local Group: Vermuyden (South Yorks)
Very pleased with the comments this has raised, such as ~get back to basic's~don't recce~supply route description on race day, Hurrah !! I'm all for it, work it out for yourselves on the day, with info provided.
Add me to that wishlist and let's hope !!
Roy.
Author: John Phillips
Posted: Fri 26th Apr 2013, 19:01
Joined: 2007
Local Group: South Pennine
Just noticed a rewrite for Section 2 of the 100. We now do 12 miles along a disused railway to start the event. Would be interesting to know if this is a direct consequence of aforementioned vandalism
Author: Armorel Young
Posted: Wed 24th Apr 2013, 19:42
Joined: 1999
Local Group: Sherwood
Given the extensive similarities between the graffiti on the Camel Teign and that on the Dorset Giant, isn't it likely that the perpetrator is a runner who has entered both events? How many people come into that category, I wonder?
Author: Ian Hull
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 22:09
Joined: 2005
Local Group: South Pennine
I did the Dorset Giant over the weekend & large sections of the route had indeed been graffitied with yellow blobs of spray paint on stiles , walls , kissing gates , telegraph poles , fence posts , tree bark , a litter bin , roadside reflective bollard & even the base of an electricity pylon . Some were in the first half of the event where all would go through in daylight . Many blobs were along an enclosed path or track where it was impossible to take a route deviation , how can you miss the only electricity pylon in the middle of a field in daylight ?! The final mile or so was along a recently opened cycleway & even here the yellow blobs had been added to new fencing . Totally unnecessary given that Dorset group gave an exemplary route description , right down to compass bearings on roads !

Taken from the perspective of farmers, landowners & locals whose area has been blighted , the actions of the person(s) who have done this reflect badly on the LDWA & can jeopardise the future organisation of such wonderful events as the Giant , which rely on the formers goodwill & cooperation for routing & hire of checkpoint halls etc .
Author: David Anthony Giles
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 21:55
Joined: 1999
So the reflective squares on the Giant were not placed by the organisers. While I class myself as a (slow) runner the attraction to do ldwa events is the lack of marking. Any marking is vandalism and/or littering and we should all be encouraged to remove it or cover up appropriately thereby negating any benefit to anyone. The vandals will be the ones lost going round in circles !
Author: Janet R Pitt-Lewis
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 20:49
Joined: 1993
Local Group: Marches
Let me commend to you all the ethos of the South Shropshire Circular where the route is not disclosed until the morning of the event
Author: Ian Sykes
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 20:04
Joined: 1986
Local Group: East Yorkshire
I do think that "we" as association are pandering too much towards the wishers of runners and the speed merchants. I'm also against marking the route. Lets get back to basics. If your not capable of walking / running the route without the aid of markers, then don't enter.
Author: John Phillips
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 19:23
Joined: 2007
Local Group: South Pennine
Now the Dorset Giant has been blighted by these vandals! The obvious solution is to keep the route secret until 48 hours before the event (or even the morning of the event). Never could understand the need to know the route inside out before the event anyway. Only reason I can see is to achieve a faster time and bragging rights, which is hardly in keeping with LDWA ethos.
Author: Elton Ellis
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 17:43
Joined: 2006
Local Group: Surrey
Author: Peter Jull
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 15:12
Joined: 2011
Local Group: Kent
This is common practice in France. I've been on French events where there are so many arrows spayed on the path the challenge is working out which is the the one you're supposed to follow. At least the Dutch stick to chalk.
Author: Iain Connell
Posted: Mon 22nd Apr 2013, 15:09
Joined: 2010
Local Group: East Lancashire
The Oxfam Trailtrekker 100km 24hr charity fund-raiser event through the Yorkshire Dales uses a mixture of large night-reflective arrows and glow-sticks, or both, to mark the whole of the route. The arrows are stapled to dead (i.e. not trees or bushes) wooden posts or fences where possible, otherwise laid on stones or on the ground; the glow-sticks are hung from branches, finger-posts or anything else convenient, otherwise also laid on the ground. Markers can be at 100m intervals or as far apart as is necesssary to unambiguously waymark the route.

Trailtrekker is a qualifying event for the hundred, and rightly so. It is the best event of any sort that I have been involved with, with impressive records for both medical backup and team support. Route markers are scrupulously removed or picked up by sweeper marshals and others either following the last teams, or shortly afterwards by event organisers. Other than one extraneous marker arrow (which I binned), I can attest that no evidence, either waymarks or signage, has remained of any of the four annual events so far, not even the staples (which come out with the arrows).

So I don't object on principle to route waymarking, so long as it is temporary and removed in good time after the event. In the case of LDWA challenge events, it would be reasonable for local group organisers to check the known locations of markers and other support signs within a week, in order to pick up any that may have been missed; otherwise, I am sure that the LDWA is as scrupulous as Oxfam in clearing up after itself, and that includes luminous drawing pins. Non-removeable paint marks, though, are a blob too far.
Author: Alan Greenwood
Posted: Sun 21st Apr 2013, 20:25
Joined: 1998
Local Group: Calderdale
Thanks Bill. Glad it was in there somewhere.
Author: David Morgan
Posted: Sun 21st Apr 2013, 19:05
Joined: 1994
Local Group: South Wales
I don't think anyone in our organisation will condone the use of paint to mark the route in the way that has been reported.

It does seem to have opened a debate on the marking of events in general though, and it is the manner of how paths are marked that is likely to be debated.
Pulic bodies such as unitary authorities and county councils mark footpaths across fields and open land with the use of waymarker posts and fingerposts. Should we complain at their permanence, as in reality, the markers are not there to solidify the legality of the footpath, but are there to guide walkers across land so that inadvertent trespassing does not take place.
I read in Strider that Chris Dawes placed pins in stiles to assist night navigation on a 100 that he helped organise. The purpose of the pins were that peoples torches would pick up their reflectiveness when their torch scanned the area. I don't recall anyone complaining about them at the time.
What if an event were marked with reflective tape to assist with a night section? Would that be a poor decision by a walk organiser? What if the walk organiser made a pledge that the tape would be removed after the event?
I'm sensing a polarisation beginning to take place in the debate between those who want a pure navigation exercise and those who will accept whatever help is avilable to them.

But, permanent paint can NEVER be the answer................
Author: Bill Lancashire
Posted: Sun 21st Apr 2013, 16:58
Joined: 2003
Local Group: South Wales
Alan, it is clearly stated in Clause 8 of 'Rules of the Event' that ( I quote) "Throughout the event each entrant must: comply with the Countryside code and do nothing to bring LDWA into disrepute."
Author: Alan Greenwood
Posted: Sun 21st Apr 2013, 14:15
Joined: 1998
Local Group: Calderdale
When we enter a challenge event, the organisers require us to sign a statement to say we shall abide by the Country Code at all times. The LDWA in their Guidelines for Events recommend that organisers follow this requirement. I have always taken this to mean as a walker, an entrant or an organiser you leave nothing behind in the countryside other than a footprint. This obligation should prevent organisers from putting out waymarks and entrants making their own. The annual 100 miles event is, I believe, different to the normal challenge event because it is the only event the LDWA organises through the Hundreds Co-ordinator. Now signing a piece of paper and enforcing the terms on it are two different matters but at least if some higher body takes us to task we can show we are trying.
It does seem rather strange therefore that the LDWA puts out recommendations but does not apply them to itself. I have searched for the evidence that an entrant is under a specific requirement to abide by the Country Code on this years Hundred. I have looked at the entry form where you would expect to find it but it appears to have been quietly dropped. Or is it an error of omission?
Author: Dr. John Batham
Posted: Sat 20th Apr 2013, 21:47
Joined: 2007
Local Group: East Yorkshire
There seems to be half a story on this post - what is the degree of vandalism? Any photos? I find it difficult to assess what's happened here. If we can identify them we can throw them out of our organisation - who else would waymark one of our walks?. It's pretty much characteristic of our society where bikes and horses can be allowed to chew up forest tracks, and yeah paint a few trees who cares, burn a few viewpoint benches on a barbecue (yes this happened in the North Yorks forests!) and we have to make laws that accommodate dogs, but hey that's just my gripe
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Fri 19th Apr 2013, 13:35
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
I fear there will be more of this over the years, from all outdoor sports (cycle, run, walk etc.) as individuals think that unofficial waymarking of a route is better and quicker than learning to navigate or pay attention to route descriptions.
Nothing new, 20 years ago I ran a race from Steying in West Sussex, up onto the downs and back. The organisers had painted all the tree roots on the descent white, in the interests of H & S!!
Whoever did it, ldwa member or not, it's a sad developement. Matt.
Author: Mark Garratt
Posted: Fri 19th Apr 2013, 10:45
Joined: 2016
Local Group: Heart of England
Yes I agree appalling . I thought one place we could escape vandalism was in the country now not even that is safe . When I recced from luck let to teignmouth back early feb there were no signs then so must be recent . Even early February tavistock onwArds was extremely busy with horseriders lots of D of E , geocachers and mountain bikers so could be anyone I would guess
Author: Armorel Young
Posted: Fri 19th Apr 2013, 8:46
Joined: 1999
Local Group: Sherwood
I saw these yellow circles while recce-ing last week. Because they were quite neat, I assumed they were official, so I'm shocked to learn that that is not the case. I'm also baffled as to who would do this - it's hardly worth the effort for an individual to do it for their own benefit, so that would suggest someone doing it to benefit a group from a particular (running?) club or a group of friends. But I suppose it's fruitless to speculate, since the organisers are probably already following this up to the best of their ability.
Author: Bill Lancashire
Posted: Fri 19th Apr 2013, 8:33
Joined: 2003
Local Group: South Wales
We have had related incidents near Newquay over recent years when running events make use of the SW Coast Path in the region.

Last year there were white arrows sprayed on pavements and tracks together with very substantial stickers fixed to fences and posts using a very heavy-duty staple gun. They even had the cheek to have written on them that removal could endanger the participants and that all markers would be removed within one week of the event. They are still present almost a year later!.

Perhaps in future event organisers should make it clear the any 'recce' trips should not be used to leave any markers and that only official markers are permitted on the route.
Author: Peter Steckles
Posted: Thu 18th Apr 2013, 21:31
Joined: 1998
Local Group: East Lancashire
Very bad.

Just wondering, however, if we don't know who did it, how do we know they are LDWA members?
Author: John Phillips
Posted: Thu 18th Apr 2013, 19:50
Joined: 2007
Local Group: South Pennine
Unbelievable. What sort of members are we attracting?
Author: Elton Ellis
Posted: Thu 18th Apr 2013, 18:19
Joined: 2006
Local Group: Surrey
http://www.ldwa.org.uk/2013Hundred/N/2455/spray-paint-on-route.html

Disqualify them from the event AND throw them out of the LDWA
Author: Aaron Hookway
Posted: Thu 18th Apr 2013, 13:50
Joined: 2012
Local Group: Vermuyden (South Yorks)
Very Disappointing

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