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Discussion Forum - Events - Secret Events

Author: Mike Childs
Posted: Thu 4th Oct 2012, 22:19
Joined: 1990
Local Group: Dorset

I am sure I can answer one of your points, on behalf of Terry and Hazel.

No one is being disingenuous (whatever that means..)

Planning and writing a route description for a major challenge walk is hard work, a lot of responsibility and it takes a lot of time. And there are many pitfalls. Believe me. I speak from experience

Personally, I would not issue any 100 RD to anyone, until it is satisfactorily finished and independently checked. Because a "provisional" route description, or a partly finished one, may contain the possibility of all kinds of serious problems for the LDWA later - including accidental trespass (upsetting land owners), confusion with later "editions" - and in some terrain, the possible situation of people getting seriously just lost doing a recce. It does happen....

An outline of the route, which is what we have at present from Cornwall and Devon, is fine. And certainly is good enough for me.

But, please do not chase the organisers, they have plenty to do, and the RD is only one of their many and difficult tasks.

It will all be OK on the day
Author: Terry Bound
Posted: Thu 4th Oct 2012, 19:30
Joined: 1983
Local Group: Cornwall & Devon
In answer to John's post, here is a precis of content in April's Strider:

Early in 2008 Ivor Kingwell, C&D Social Secretary, and organiser of the Dartmoor Reservoir Kanters, came to committee with his idea for our next hundred.
After he had put in a lot of research, Ivor suggested that we planned a walk that ran from coast to coast through both counties. His enthusiasm was such that it was agreed that he put in a bid on our behalf to the national committee. In mid-2008 we were allocated the 2013 Hundred.

Sadly in Nov 2008 just as Ivor was forming an executive group, he collapsed and died whilst out on a walk with Scouts on Dartmoor. C&D Group members were stunned but it quickly became clear that this 100 would now be our Groups tribute to Ivor, thus Camel-Teign Ivor’s Dream 100 was voted as the title of this event

Author: Carole Elizabeth Engel
Posted: Thu 4th Oct 2012, 14:17
Joined: 1998
Local Group: Calderdale
I have posted twice on this topic but have not once mentioned the word "recce". In fact I no longer do any as a necessity for longer events, especially those as far from home as the Teignmouth 100 is. Technology available now, enables navigating in unfamiliar territory to be done easily and accurately.
The point I made in my first posting was that I would like to know how much road and hard track there is in this 100 because my feet cannot cope with long distances on hard surfaces. I did not enter The Games 100, The Heart of Scotland 100 or the Wessex 100 for this reason. Most of the replies to my post about recce-ing, racing and other sundry matters are irrelevant. They should be the subject of another thread on this forum.
Entry fees for the Teignmouth 100 must be paid by successful applicants by 20th December 2012 and the route will not be disclosed until January 2013 or after. At the very least, the payment of entry fee should take place AFTER the disclosure of the route to enable interested members the chance to make an informed decision as to whether or not to enter.
It is disingenuous for the organisers to boast that their diagramatical route is so accurate that potential entrants are able to copy it into their mapping and work out the route. The arguments therefore for not publishing the route description now fall away. Why do the organisers require entrants to have to go through a guessing procedure when all that is needed is to publish the route description as it is? All route descriptions are subject to alteration right up to the date of the event – a fact that is readily accepted by entrants.
Author: Eileen Greenwood
Posted: Thu 4th Oct 2012, 10:29
Joined: 2002
Local Group: Yorkshire Coast
I like to reccy the 100 but not in order to race round or enable me to go faster as racing isn't part of my vocabularly! But I do like to see the night time sections of the 100 routes in daylight. There is usually some very pretty scenery around. And I like to take a stress free few days holiday by reccying the route around the Easter period.
Author: John Pennifold
Posted: Wed 3rd Oct 2012, 23:19
Joined: 1996
Local Group: London
Camel-Teign Ivor's Dream? I'm sure that I'm missing something here. Is Ivor "Ivor the Engine"?
Author: Roy Turner
Posted: Wed 3rd Oct 2012, 21:24
Joined: 1988
Local Group: Vermuyden (South Yorks)
The Majority of my 100 walks have'nt been recce'ed, each footfall being a virgin step, much better working fresh from the Route/Desc/ Map.
What's the advantage? Time. Yes ok, special walk this one. But in general, are'nt we time obsessed??
Agree with John,would'nt mind route desc handed out at registration.
Author: Terry Bound
Posted: Wed 3rd Oct 2012, 17:14
Joined: 1983
Local Group: Cornwall & Devon
For everyone’s information, and as I replied to Carole’s e-mail earlier last month, we will not be releasing the Camel-Teign Ivor’s Dream 100 route description before the end of January. This is to enable us to check out the one remaining section. There are some negotiations still being completed with landowners. Since e-mailing Carole, we have had to consider redirecting the route to avoid inconvenience.

The Games 100 route wasn’t released until February this year and this still gives supporters and walkers time to recce the route which we appreciate is part of some people’s enjoyment of the event and we appreciate it brings money into the local economy.

Some potential entrants have looked at the route of the diagram on the website and said it is so accurate that they were able to copy into their mapping and work out the route!

Chair Organising Committee
Camel-Teign Ivor's Dream 100
Author: Peter Jull
Posted: Wed 3rd Oct 2012, 11:00
Joined: 2011
Local Group: Kent
I tried Andrew's suggestion but made the distance from checkpoit 1 to checkpoit 2 only 5.8 miles not the 6.8 indicated. Is there a deliberate diversion to get the distance, or a measuring error or more likely the route is still being refined & too much detail more misleading than helpful.

Further on any obvious route between checkpoints was less than obvious to me & wouldn't have included Dartmeet unless the route description said so. Compass looks likely to be essential. My only concern is that the route looks likely to suffer from intrusive A38 traffic noise towards the end.
Author: Matthew Hand
Posted: Tue 2nd Oct 2012, 17:16
Joined: 2001
Local Group: Mid Wales
That would certainly have put the knackers on this years Dragons Back race, entrants (having paid £500 entry for the 5 days) weren't given the route map each day, till on the start line that morning(mountain marathon style).
From a personal perspective, I can't really see the point in recceing any ldwa events, they aren't races so there is no pressure to go faster and why waste petrol and time going over a route that you are going to go over anyway?
Don't think I have ever reccied a single event, I'm quite contented working off a map, whether it comes on the day or not. Matt.
Author: Carole Elizabeth Engel
Posted: Tue 2nd Oct 2012, 13:28
Joined: 1998
Local Group: Calderdale
You cannot compare a 25 mile challenge event to the 100. There are several important differences. The 100 takes much more preparation and training time; the route is a one-off; and the entrant has to pay an entry fee of £60, along with various other costs for accommodation, meals, car parking, transport and mapping, probably resulting in a total cost of well over £100 for most entrants.
The organisers of recent 100s have moved away from holding back details of the route and I would have hoped that the trend would have continued as being best practice. It does appear however that the Teignmouth 100 is reverting back to a situation which used to apply in the past, which in my view is a retrograde step.
The refusal to publish the route leaves prospective entrants with the feeling that you can only have the route when the organisers say so. I consider this is not acceptable bearing in mind the expense that is likely to be incurred by an entrant.
It does seem illogical to me that the organisers do not wish to release the route till January (or possibly April) and it is difficult to see how an earlier release at this point is going to “put the event in jeopardy”. Clearly if a situation is going to arise where the event is put in jeopardy, it would be better to explain the reason in full.
All the information about an event of this distance should be available before an entrant decides to put pen to paper. I would have hoped that an organiser would accept the comments on this website as being good feedback on the published information that is available so far and in plenty of time to make changes to cater for entrants’ wishes.
Posted: Sat 29th Sep 2012, 18:34
What secrecy? On most events the route description isn't released until after the deadline for entries, but there'll be a brief summary which gives a reasonable idea of "what you're letting yourself in for" without having to scrutinise every step of the route. In the case of the 2013 Hundred the route summary runs thus:

"After leaving Wadebridge the route runs along the Camel Trail to Checkpoint 1 at Dunmere. Shortly after this it leaves the trail and heads off across pasture and woodland to Bodmin Moor, passing Brown Willy on the way to Jamaica Inn and the A30. From here the walk winds its way through pastureland again to Pensilva and Callington to arrive at Tavistock for breakfast stop. From here is a steady climb to Dartmoor by way of Sampford Spiney and the dismantled railway to reach Princetown (of Dartmoor Prison fame) and the highest point of the walk. A gentle descent follows to Hexworthy and Dartmeet before leaving the moor at Newbridge. Back through woodlands and riverside walking to Ashburton at 80 miles, followed by pasture and heath passing through Liverton, Chudleigh Knighton and Ideford before a final ascent over the Haldon Ridge, to cross the golf course and the descent into the finish at Teignmouth."

I'd have thought that constituted at least enough information to be able to decide whether or not to enter; of course full details will be released later for the purposes of recces etc.

John P - I'd be happy to tackle 20-30 miles under the conditions you describe, not sure I'd fancy 100 though!
Author: Dr. John Batham
Posted: Fri 28th Sep 2012, 15:35
Joined: 2007
Local Group: East Yorkshire
John Phillips - what you are suggesting is that it should be a Challenge!!
Author: Albert Bowes
Posted: Fri 28th Sep 2012, 15:10
Joined: 1990
Local Group: North Yorkshire
Can I add a plea on behalf of the "checkpointers"and supporters who spend many hours supporting entrants on the 100. Over a number of years now some of us have pre-walked the 100 route over a week using it as a weeks holiday, getting to know the area, enjoying the scenery, countryside and villages en'route. A lot of money must be put into the local economy by 100 pre-walkers. Why spoil our fun. We have to listen to our partners, friends etc after the event recounting the whys and wherefores of the event, its good to have the knowledge of the route to be able to converse with them.

Having walked a 100 in the past, I think it is enough of a challenge without trying to make it harder by not issuing the route in enough time to plan a recee, plus many hour can be spent in front of mapping systems on the computer checking out the route on cold winter nights!!!. The question of the route going over private land shouldnt be an issue, this has happened in the past with an alternative suggested bypass being offered for pre-walkers.

Eva Bowes
Author: Andrew Gilbertson
Posted: Sun 23rd Sep 2012, 17:13
Joined: 2005
Local Group: Beds, Bucks and Northants
I think one can can get a very good idea of what the route will be, by looking at the maps with stated checpoints marked and finding sensible ways to link them.
On that basis I would say that a lot will be on tracks?cycle ways etc.
Should be a wonderful walk so long as the weather is not TOO challenging.
Author: John Phillips
Posted: Fri 21st Sep 2012, 11:06
Joined: 2007
Local Group: South Pennine
Wouldn't it be fun if the 100 route only issued on the morning of the event? No pre reccying, no 50 page route description, no GPS, everyone having to use map and compass to navigate between checkpoints? No planning of shortcuts before the event. Everyone getting lost overnight? Discuss
Author: Mark Garratt
Posted: Thu 20th Sep 2012, 21:03
Joined: 2016
Local Group: Heart of England
The checkpoints are on the website but obviously not the route . I would enter I did this years hundred and didn't reccee the course which maybe would have helped but the organisinion for the 100 is fantastic . It was my first 100 this year after doing loads of marathons and a few 50 s . The 100 hurt like hell but I am coming back for more . Enter you won't regret it I promise
Author: Carole Elizabeth Engel
Posted: Thu 20th Sep 2012, 14:11
Joined: 1998
Local Group: Calderdale
I am writing to ask opinions on the "secretiveness" of the 2013 Hundred route. Entries open soon but the route will not be disclosed until January 2013. How can anyone enter such a big challenge without having a clue as to what they are letting themselves in for? I cannot walk 100 miles (as opposed to the usual 20 to 25 miles) if it is predominantly road and track and I want to make an informed decision before committing myself. The reason appears to be that the route goes over "private land" but of course, isn't all land in the UK owned by someone? I would expect challenge events to be on public rights of way or over open access land, which is open to everyone.

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